[dougc]

I tie mine off to the jib car where the block is attached. We release that knot, and tie off to the block at the jib to go back to 1 to 1.

[dougc]

Just for the record, I never advocated changing any class rules. I was merely trying to get clarification on the extents and interpretation of that rule to make sure that I could comply with it. I am new to the class and thought this forum was a place for open discussion those kinds of things.

All of my posts were intended to be lighthearted and fun; my apologies if I missed that mark with anyone, and my thanks to all who responded in kind.

[dougc]

Thanks for your input, Jay, I do appreciate it, and thanks for having a sense of humor as well!

I’ll admit to being a geeky nerd. I like to play with the gadgets and do enjoy them on the boat. Whether they are a help or hindrace will remain a matter of debate and perhaps best left to personal tastes.

However, I like to abide by the rules and will sadly leave them ashore. I may have to replace my gps with a 2 inch grid of tell tales on the main and jib though! :.)

[dougc]

Jay makes a good point here.

“I don’t think a basic GPS unit with a price point which is in touch with the class culture (to use Travis’ example, one which costs $400) is going to help any racer very much.”

If they don’t help, why ban them?

My frustration is understanding what the intent of class rule Article S-V, 7 really is, and what constitutes complying with it. Except for compasses and timers, it specifically prohibits “the operation or use of electronic devices that are used as an aid to the boats performance during a race” and then gives a list of devices, “VHF radios, CB radios, Cell phones, GPS, PC lap top, and compasses that calculate lifts and headers”.

I have a plastimo tactical compass that you could say calculates lifts and headers. I don’t believe that it is banned by the rule, but may put me in the weanie sailor category for using it.

The tactical compass has the degrees marked on the top of the card add is hard to read from the helm, so I have my GPS set up to display my heading and my boat speed. The GPS doesn’t calculate lifts and headers, and personally, I wouldn’t consider boat speed an “aid to the boats performance”. I also record the track, but I don’t look at or use this information during the race. Does this type of use of a GPS violate the rule?

The same kind of issues are inherent with the Cell phone and VHF. Most Coast Guard safety courses recommend monitoring channel 16 while on the water, and some people may have reasons to answer a cell phone call during a race. Neither of these uses are “aids to the boats performance”, so are you violating the rule if you “operate or use” them during a race?

Don’t misunderstand me, I am not trying to change the rule, just interpret and comply with it. As you can see from this thread, some people take the rule to mean that none of these devices can be used or even turned on during a race. Others have a more open interpretation and, for instance would not see a digital display of compass heading from a GPS, recording the boat’s track with a GPS for later download, or monitoring channel 16 with a VHF to be violations of the rule.

[dougc]

Transom, I have to disagree. I don’t know of any electronics that tell you what to do and get you around the course first.

Did you see the America’s cup races? All the electronics money can buy and a skilled navigator to use them and the Swiss boat commits 2 silly fouls, both boats stall in tacks on the starting line, BMW fails to cover and gives a lead away until the Swiss boat overstands the layline and gives it back! They should have thrown those electronics overboard before the start just like they did the weatherman.

If you have a problem with electronics and want to go mano-a-mano in the boats, we should throw out the compasses, tack-ticks, masthead flies, tell tales, wear blindfolds and get around the course by the feel of the breeze on our neck! Actually, that might be fun.

Make no mistake, even if you have a gps and boatspeed readout that gps is not sailing the boat. The guy on the tiller still has to make the right decisions and have the sailing skills to get the boat around the course.

The arms race argument is just nonsense. Some people buy new sails every year, and that’s a definite performance enhancer. I’m sailing the original sails that came with my 10 year old boat. I don’t know when I’ll get the extra cash saved up to get new sails, but I do own a $99.00 handheld gps!

[dougc]

I bought my Scot because I wanted to race a one design boat that I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable racing with my famil. Being fairly new to racing, what that meant to me was that the boats would all have the same sails, hull, spars, and appendages. I never imagined there would be any limitations on what you could bring into the boat such as a VHF, GPS, or cell phone.

I brought my gps on the boat last year just for the fun of looking at the tracks after the races. I do that when I’m backpacking/hiking. Being a geek, its fun to display the track in Google Earth and check out where you hiked. Likewise, it was fun to look at tracks from the race and see what the max speed was, what leg it occurred on, and how far we had sailed. Then I realized I could also see where I had missed wind shifts, and how much time is lost in tacks.

This got me to reading more about boat handling and sailing tactics where I learned about oscillating winds and that you should try to figure out the median wind and use that as a reference to help decide whether to tack on a shift or not. Since I am just not good enough to judge the median wind by “the seat of my pants”, I bought a tactical compass. As far as I know, this is legal even though it and recording some close hauled headings does provide information on the apparent wind that makes up for my “seat of the pants” handicap.

So, I never imagined that recording tracks or having boat speed displayed would be illegal. I’ll admit that I don’t have a good “seat of the pants” feel for boat speed. Unfortunately, I just don’t get enough time in the boat to really develop it. And, I did notice that on numerous occasions when I thought we felt slow, we were actually pretty much on the polars. I had been reading about improving downwind sailing by sailing the polars. I don’t how you do that without knowing the boat speed and apparent wind speed, but all the racing books say it’s the only way to go.

There is no question that the GPS and the compass improved some aspects of my racing much quicker than if I had relied only on time in the boat. They played as important a part as refining our crew work and improving our starts. And it was just fun to use them and play with the data after the race.

My opinion is that if the boats are physically the same, I don’t care what anyone brings into their boat whether its a GPS, nav stations, color weather radar, or Ouija board (although I don’t allow bananas on my boat, they are strictly bad luck). If they think it helps them improve, or just adds some fun, then let them use it. And likewise, there is no way I am looking to remove anyone’s highly developed pant seats!

[dougc]

Thanks for the continued discussion on this topic. The lightning and thistle links are very interesting. It never occurred to me that people may use a cell phone or vhf to collaborate during a race. Would it be illegal/unethical to discuss the previous race between races?

I don’t have any problems with the class rules as they are, but now I’m a bit confused about what information you are allowed to use during a race. Is it the electronics, or the information that is not allowed? Is a non-electronic knotmeter legal?

[dougc]

Thanks for the response. I understand and agree with the one design philosophy as that is one of the reasons I bought the boat.

Last year was the first year that we actively raced. It was mostly portsmouth club races, and we found the feedback from the GPS invaluable in helping us up the learning curve with respect to sail trim. We still have a long way to go, but the improvement has been noticeable. Analyzing the tracks after the race showed us we were missing headers, and that led us to learn how to pick them up with our analog compass. I’m convinced that GPS usage is a great tool for improving your sailing.

I’m not sure that gps usage would constitute an arms race now that gps data is available for so many devices from handhelds to watches and cell phones at prices much lower than upgrading a 70’s vintage boat to the “radical racing package”.

Lighter lines, better deck layouts, and new sails are absolute performance enhancers for any boat. But, to me, GPS data is just another bit of information to use for decision making on the race course. No different than what I get from tell tales, the masthead fly, the angle of heel, or the tug on the tiller. It doesn’t help the physical performance of the boat at all, it is just another piece of information to be considered. I still have to decide what to do with it to make the physical changes that will improve performance.

With prices in line with a harken block, it is a shame to miss out on the opportunity to have that speed and heading data as well as your track after the race to analyze your performance.

Thanks again for the response.

[dougc]

OK, perhaps a better question is why are they prohibited?

Since you can get heading and boat speed with analog devices, what performance advantage do they provide?

[dougc]

Thanks I’m going to give that try.

[dougc]

Thanks, by power off, do you mean ease the jib and start the turn? And, by power down do you mean to bear off a little before coming up to close hauled? Also, does it help to try to roll the boat to leeward as you start the turn?

Thanks

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